Coran Woodmass, the founder of The FBA Broker, answers your questions related to buying and selling Amazon FBA businesses.
Want to sell or buy an Amazon FBA business? Go to TheFBABroker.com/
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Our guest Coran Woodmass started as a private investor in 2013, buying, building and selling online businesses. Coran became a broker in mid-2016, and after noticing a trend towards more buyer demand for FBA businesses, Coran launched TheFBABroker.com in June 2016 to become the first brokerage to focus exclusively on Amazon-based businesses.
Since launching TheFBABroker.com, Coran has spoken to hundreds of buyers and sellers and was involved in dozens of FBA transactions as a broker or consultant.
List of questions covered in this video:
00:35 How does The FBA Broker serve Amazon sellers?
01:32 What is the Amazon market like for selling Amazon businesses?
04:41 How do you evaluate how much is the price for the listing of your own business?
06:02 What does “trailing 12 months net profit” mean?
06:17 What increases a business’ value when selling FBA businesses, and what reduces it?
10:59 What is the average or the normal “multiple” in the market at the moment?
13:36 Is a European Amazon business more difficult to sell than a US account? Did The FBA Broker sell any EU businesses recently? Is it the same multiple for European businesses?
15:45 How does selling an Amazon business and buying it work?
17:10 How long does an account or brand transfer take?
18:16 How many products are in those businesses that The FBA Broker usually sell?
19:33 If a business has an Amazon store, eBay store and its own website, and profit is about 1/3 on each channel and have 10,000 client email list or client list, what price earnings ratio is a fair valuation?
20:42 Is there interest to buy a partial percentage of the business instead of buying the 100 percent of the business?
22:02 How do people see what businesses The FBA Broker has for sale?
22:53 If a buyer or a seller doesn’t find a good match in The FBA Broker platform, will you recommend these people to go to some other listing?
23:51 What is the difference between an Amazon business versus ecommerce business with different sales channels in terms of the multiple?
24:53 Is Amazon’s very rapid growth of Amazon Basics and their many house brands reducing valuation multiples due to greater risk for acquirer over the next few years?
26:21 What is the commission The FBA Broker takes on a deal? And what is involved in the whole process and what part does The FBA Broker take and what does The FBA Broker do for the deal to happen?
30:06 What is the usual range of the commissions The FBA Broker takes?
30:34 Does the seller need to sign a non-compete agreement after the business is sold? Can they sell again on Amazon directly after (on a different category for example)?
31:55 Is it a matter of the category itself that buyers want, or are some categories easier to diversify in and have higher net profit?
33:13 Between a Hong Kong-based company (non-taxed) and a US-based one, which one is worth more?
35:06 What does an “SBA-backed loan” mean and what are its advantages?
35:34 What should a seller do at the beginning for their business so that they can exit with a maximum selling price years later?
37:36 Can you sell a particular SKU, and not the whole account? What’s the process of that? How do you transfer SKU to someone else?
39:47 Do any of the buyers want to retain any of the principal employees (such as the buyer specialist position) from the seller’s business for a transition period?
41:35 What is your take on people selling their Amazon businesses because it’s getting difficult to sell on Amazon? Do you think it’s worth it to sell a business at this moment of the year and time?
43:50 How is sales tax impacting the value of the business if someone has paid the sales tax or if someone hasn’t paid it?
45:04 Should a seller only keep best-selling products or also keep not-so-good ones when it comes to selling their account? What is a good ratio between good, average, and bad products?
47:28 What is the difference between The FBA Broker and other brokers in the market such as the “Empire Flippers”?
48:32 How can people reach out to The FBA Broker for their recommended bookkeeper’s details?
48:53 Is it even feasible to imagine starting a brand and putting in a lot of resources (time, money, etc.) and then selling it in under two years?
50:49 Is having a very seasonal product (or products) a big problem?
52:00 Does The FBA Broker recommend anyone to help prepare a business to be sold?
53:00 Is it true that selling US-based companies is much preferred than selling European-based ones?
55:02 When selling a business, does the seller need to give/provide instructions, tips, strategies that work for the business to a buyer? Do business sellers need to consult the new business owner after the deal?
55:26 What are the biggest mistakes you see people do when they’re trying to sell their business?
58:04 Has The FBA Broker sold any German FBA businesses?
58:47 How can people contact The FBA Broker and how can The FBA Broker help them?
Transcript – Q&A with The FBA Broker Coran Woodmass
[00:00:01] Augustas: Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Expert Q&A. My name is Augustas Kligys from Orange Klik. And today’s webinar is just a simple Q&A session, there will be no special content prepared in advance. So if you have any kind of questions to our expert today, you’re welcome to type your questions into the chat box. And today’s guest is Coran Woodmass, who is the founder of “The FBA Broker.” Hello, Coran.
[00:00:33] Coran: Hey, Augustas. Thanks for having me on.
[00:00:35] Augustas: And while we wait a little bit while people are coming into the room, can you tell us shortly how you serve Amazon sellers?
[00:00:45] Coran: Sure! My name is Coran Woodmass. As Augustas mentioned, I’m the founder and managing partner here at “The FBA Broker.” We were the first business brokerage to focus exclusively on selling Amazon FBA businesses. And we launched the business about two years ago, and now we’re expanding our team quite rapidly and managing to help a lot of sellers prepare for and sell their FBA businesses, which is great.
[00:01:12] Augustas: Great. And we are both in Europe — Coran is in Prague, I’m in Dresden, in Germany. I think we can start with the first questions which I have prepared for myself. And I’m asking everyone who is on this call live: please submit your questions in the chat box and we’ll address them to Coran. So let’s start with the first question. Let’s talk a little bit more general. What is the Amazon market like for selling Amazon businesses?
[00:01:43] Coran: Sure. So this right now really depends on the size of your Amazon business that you’re going to sell. We talk a lot about “list price” — and we can talk about how to figure out a list price in a minute — but this really depends on how large the business is. So right now, I’ll break it down into price points and then explain how that looks at the moment. So under $500,000, right now, is really a buyer’s market. There is a lot of listings on the marketplace available right now, so buyers really have a wide choice of businesses to buy in the half-million to a million-dollar range list prices. You really need to stand out against the competition and have something unique and different for buyers to pick up your business as opposed to the others on the market.
[00:02:34] Coran: The reason for this is, the majority of the under half-a-million range is private investors — people that have saved up their own capital, maybe they’ve sold another business and they’re looking to buy a business. And in the half million to $1 million range, there’s just less of these private buyers that have that much capital to put into one deal. Maybe they have the million dollars, but they’d like to put that over four deals instead of one. So it needs to be something special at this price point. Also, the larger investors — so the private equity groups, the guys who sort of pooled money together and they have, say, an operator — this price range really isn’t attractive to them. The businesses for the most part just aren’t a big enough business for them to get excited about growing. Then you’ve got the $1 million to $5 million price point range, and last year in October, I gave a talk in Bangkok, in Thailand, and I was saying that the $1 million to $5 million price range is really a bit of a black hole.
[00:03:30] Coran: It’s just, again, the smaller businesses for these larger funds. What’s happened early this year, though, is a lot of groups have raised capital with the explicit interest in buying multiple FBA brands. So right now, in the $1 million to $5 million price range, there’s a lot of cash buyers and they’re looking to pick up brands. So if you’re in this price point right now, it’s very exciting. If you have something that is a good solid brand, you’re serving the same target market with your products and you know you’re solving a real problem, and the products are a little bit different, there’s a lot of buyers right now, so that’s a good time to sell. In the $5 million to $50 million enterprise value list price range, this is almost exclusively private equity and strategic buyers, family offices. So these guys, there’s a lot of deals being done. However, there’s just not as many businesses that get that large. So when there are businesses that are this size and above, there’s a lot of buyers for those. But again, they’re looking for really something more proprietary, a very strong brand, and not a mesh of products.
[00:04:41] Augustas: So you mentioned this “list price.” How do you evaluate how much is the price for the listing of your own business? Can you tell us the formula or how it works?
[00:04:53] Coran: Yeah, absolutely. Everyone in the FBA community knows their revenue numbers, right? And it’s easy to brag about your revenue numbers, easy to know what this is. Unfortunately, when you go to sell an FBA business, revenue is really more of a vanity metric — it’s useful, but not what we base evaluation of. What we’re actually looking for is your “annualized net profit.” And to find this, you have to look at your actual expenses with Amazon. So you look at your revenue, you take out the Amazon expenses, also cost of goods, right, on a units sold basis or an accrual basis, and then any other expenses that it takes to run the business: things like advertising costs, what software you’re using, if you’ve got any staff, these type of things to run the business. And then you look at your net profit number. And you can also add back things like personal taxes, business taxes, your own salary. So there’s a chance to add back some expenses there to give you a higher net profit number. So we use that trailing 12 months net profit to come up with a valuation for your business. Everything else being equal, the larger that number is, the higher the multiple could potentially be.
[00:06:02] Augustas: You mentioned “trailing 12 months.” So, like, you are looking at the last 12 months. Correct?
[00:06:11] Coran: Correct. Correct. Yes. So the last 12 months net profit is what we look at. Yes.
[00:06:17] Augustas: Alright. And we already have a question from the audience, which is probably a very common question. “What increases value when selling FBA businesses, and what reduces it?”
[00:06:28] Coran: Sure. So lets go with what reduces value first — so the biggest things we’re seeing that are killing valuations and killing chances of selling your business. Listing your business isn’t solid, right? You still need to get that built on. One of the major things that we’re seeing as a trend right now is declining net profit. You can see the trailing 12 months, that’s great, but an investor will want to see how the business is trailing both year over year and month over month. So right now, in the last six to nine months, one of the biggest killers of net profit or reducing factors has been PPC costs. They’re getting out of control. And what’s actually happening is Amazon is giving you more options in the advertising panel, which means that they’re able to charge you more, basically, if you don’t keep an eye on what’s going on.
[00:07:18] Coran: So that’s one thing. A declining trend year over year or month over month, as long as it’s not seasonal-based, that’s different. But if there’s a declining trend in general, that can kill the chance of a deal. And an investor will basically make an offer that’s lower in line with what your current trend is. The other thing that we’re seeing right now is a big trend with buyers. Two years ago, this did not matter at all, but right now, buyers are really looking for brand synergy. So if you sell in sports and outdoor, they’re looking for tight, tight products around that type of customer. So, say, you’re doing water sports and you have five, six, 10 products in the water sports category, that add-on products, all appealing to that 25 to 30, 20 to 30 year-old male that goes out, does water sports on the weekend.
[00:08:11] Coran: That actually really matters now. A lot of times, we’ll see businesses with multiple brands but they only have one or two products under each brand, and then one product is the hero product. So that’s not as interesting right now, and that’s actually encouraging lower offers, which also leads to the third point. The third killer of value is one hero product. So when I started The FBA Broker two years ago, it didn’t matter — one hero product, mismatched brands, mismatched products — everything almost could have been sold if the numbers were right. But right now, that’s really impacting value. On the flip side of that, of course, if you do have a targeted brand, a good product range that is serving those customers, or you have multiple brands that are serving targeted customers with multiple products, that’s good as well. If you have diversification of income, that’s amazing.
[00:09:05] Coran: Diversification of income channels also come into play when it comes to a high evaluation. So if you control the income channel or you have multiple income channels, this will help. But the income channel needs to be producing more than 30 percent of revenue for it to matter. So oftentimes, we’ll see a business doing 95 or 99 percent of their income from Amazon US, let’s say, and they have a website that’s doing maybe one or two percent of sales — that’s not diversification. If you have a website that, say, has a subscription where people are buying your supplements over and over again, month after month, that plays. If that’s more than 30 percent, that will increase the value of your business. And the number one thing right now, I’m talking about this a lot at the moment, is brand. Brand synergy and brand really play a role. Also net profit. So if you divide your net profit for the trailing 12 months and divide that into your revenue, you’ll actually get a net margin of your revenue. And the average (net margin) that we’ve found over the last 12 months of businesses that have actually sold, it’s over 29 percent net margin.
[00:10:22] Coran: Now, once you do this calculation yourself, you’ll see that on average, 20 to 25 percent seems like what most Amazon sellers are going for. But the buyers are actually looking for more margin. So if you have a lower margin, a lot of times we see businesses with 10, 12, 15 percent margin come through wanting to sell. And on the market, they will sit on the market for a long time and/or get a really low offer. So this is really a sign of maybe people are selling too early, so they’re not actually preparing for the sale. So they’re the main things that really impact valuations.
[00:10:59] Augustas: And we have more questions, and I see someone is mentioning example of “multiples” in the question. Can you tell us what the average multiple is, or what the normal multiple in the market is at the moment?
[00:11:16] Coran: Sure. So it depends on the list price range, again. I’ll just pull this up. I’m just pulling up our evaluation tool. So right now, we’re actually seeing a declining trend in multiples at most price points. And the reason for this is the amount of inventory on the market. So right now, just before the call, I checked our full list, and for the past two years now, we’ve been tracking all the public sales of FBA businesses — not just our own, but the whole market — and right now, there’s 222 listings that are available. So there’s a lot of choice. And about 60 percent of that is under half a billion dollars. What we’re seeing is that’s actually driving the multiples down. Right now, the average multiple at a listing that’s under $100,000 is only 1.7x. It’s what they’re actually selling for, mind you, not what they’re listed for, but what they’re selling for. And the $100,000 to $500,000, it’s about 2x to 2.5x. The net profit in the $500,000 to $1,000,000 category, we’re noting that a lot of these are selling around the 2.5x to 3x multiple, and we’re actually seeing a downward trend in that price point.
[00:12:36] Coran: Mostly. Most of those deals are actually including inventory, though, so keep that in mind. That’s not a true multiple. At the lower ends, you’ll see that “plus inventory” at cost, so it might be 1.7x — eighth of your net — but then you’re getting an inventory on top, right? And above a million dollars, we’re seeing the pressure actually going up on multiples because of the buy side interest. They’re often selling anywhere from 3x to 4x, free cashflow or annual net profit right now. And then above $5 million to $50 million range, that’s really strong. That can be anywhere from 4x to 6x depending on how defensible the business actually is.
[00:13:18] Augustas: Wow. So the bigger the business is, the more money you can get by selling it.
[00:13:24] Coran: Everything else being equal, yes. But you definitely want that brand synergy. That’s key right now. If you have defensible income sources as well, that will definitely boost your multiple. Yes.
[00:13:36] Augustas: So the next question is from the audience, and it sounds like this: “Is European Amazon business more difficult to sell than US account? Did you sell any recently?” EU businesses. And “is it the same multiple for European businesses?” And he says 20-30x multiples. So it’s probably times per month net profit.
[00:14:03] Coran: Yeah. There was a couple of questions there. European-based businesses, unfortunately right now, are a little bit tougher to sell because the bulk of the buyer pool is US-based. So you really need to find a US buyer that’s wanting to add a European channel. And again, the price points really play here; so under half a million dollars, if you’re looking for a private investor to come and buy your business, they are looking at all of these options — that could be 100 listings they’re looking at. And if you’re, say, Germany only or Germany is 80 percent of your revenue, it’s just going to be tougher to find someone to buy that business. I’m not saying that it’s impossible, we’ve done a number of these deals recently. And also, you’ll see a lower multiple if it was a European-based business and a US-based business and everything else was equal. The offers that you would see on the European-based business right now are a little bit less. They’re softer multiples than than the US. It’s just because of buyer competition, and buyers know there’s less buyers involved. So the ones that are looking into Europe are looking for a deal.
[00:15:11] Coran: And yes. We’ve actually got a German-based business closing this week. It’s definitely possible to transfer the businesses. Right now, you can definitely reach out to Amazon, but in Germany, specifically, on that deal, we’re actually doing a brand transfer. So the buyer has started a brand new account, we’re transferring the assets across in the brand to that new account, because Amazon said they wouldn’t transfer the seller account to the buyer in that case. I’ve heard both. We have a client that has approval, another client that didn’t get the approval.
[00:15:45] Augustas: Since you touched this topic, can you explain to everyone how it works when I sell my business and somebody else buys it? We know that Amazon is very sensitive to all the changes of their account data and so on.
[00:16:01] Coran: Yes. So it depends on the country, and it also depends on the buyer which is the best option for transferring an account. There’s basically two main ways that you can transfer the business. One is the seller account transfer, the other is a brand transfer. So, for instance, in Germany, with this recent deal, the buyers set up a new account and they’ll transfer the brand and the products over to that new account, they’ll take over the listing and off they go. And in other cases, in the US, almost all deals we’re doing are actually including the seller account and you reach out to Amazon and get that permission. They’ll give you the “Here’s how to transfer across” message. You basically update the back end details. In the UK, it’s very similar, but you need to get Amazon involved in all cases. Amazon have said publicly that they are okay with it and they understand that businesses are being sold, but if it’s a legitimate business, they’ll review it on a case-by-case basis. So the best practice is to always get Amazon involved and tell them early on that you’re selling your business and you need that permission to move forward. Yeah.
[00:17:10] Augustas: And how long does this transfer take? I guess it’s not only a few weeks, it might take a few months, right?
[00:17:17] Coran: Yes. Yeah. So if you’re taking over a seller account, that can be quite fast. If you’re transferring the assets of the business, it can take a little bit longer because you need to get Amazon to say, “Yes, this new seller account can sell your products,” and then you need to transfer products across, get them into the warehouses, get them on the listing and then get them to take over and then take it all. In this case, it could take a couple of weeks to do that, whereas we had a deal two weeks ago in the US, it closed in two hours. They literally got on the phone, changed everything over and it’s done. We have another US-based transfer that’s happening — it was scheduled to happen tonight or tomorrow — again, that’ll be an hour on the phone, everyone on the phone together transferring across the account and we’re done.
[00:18:07] Augustas: Your team obviously deals with European and US deals, right?
[00:18:12] Coran: Yes, correct. About half of our deal flow is European-based right now.
[00:18:16] Augustas: And also another question I see is, “How many products have businesses that you usually sell?” Very broad question.
[00:18:25] Coran: “How many?”
[00:18:26] Augustas: “How many products are in those businesses which are sold?”
[00:18:31] Coran: Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah, sure. I get what they’re saying here. It depends. The very first FBA deal I was involved with was actually a single product with two variations or something, and that sold very fast. What we’re seeing now is buyers want diversification even at the smaller levels — at the half a million dollar mark, they’re still wanting diversification. What we’ll see, though, is sellers will have maybe five, 10, 20 products that they’re selling, but one product will be the hero product a lot of the time at that lower price point, and that’s where it gets a little tricky. Because if one product goes down, then competition comes in, then the income’s gone, whereas if you have a full suite of products, maybe 10, 15 products and they’re all doing similar work on the business — one’s 20 percent, one’s 10, one’s 30 — that’s not as scary for a buyer, because they’re always thinking, “What’s the chance of this going to zero?” Because they are mitigating that risk.
[00:19:33] Augustas: I see. There is one specific question the person (in the audience) is asking: “If a business has an Amazon store, eBay store and its own website, and profit is about 1/3 on each channel and have 10,000 client email list or client list”, probably emails. So “What price earnings ratio is a fair valuation?” So basically, what can be the multiple for such business?
[00:20:02] Coran: I’d need to know what the revenue and that profit is for the trailing 12 (months), but that’s good diversification. So that’s a good start if it’s mixed. And the client email list will matter if they’re actually buying again and again. If they’ve bought once, but you just have their email address, that’s not as interesting. The email list needs to be driving income for it to be considered an income channel. Does that make sense?
[00:20:28] Augustas: I think so. But I can agree that it’s very little information to tell the final multiple. But it increases the multiple, obviously.
[00:20:37] Coran: Yes. Yeah, that’s one point to a better multiple. Absolutely, yes.
[00:20:42] Augustas: Someone is interested to know, “Is there interest to buy a partial percentage of the business versus the 100 percent of the business?”
[00:20:53] Coran: Yeah, that’s a great question, actually. Yes, there’s a ton of buyer interest in this. We actually did some outreach to investors to see if this was a niche that people are wanting to do, and what we found, though, was a lot of the investors are looking at the higher levels to do this. So if you’re doing, say, a couple of million dollars a year and you’re at a high growth mode and you need more capital to keep growing this business and it’s not a fad product, then yes, you can get investors on. Unfortunately, much below that million dollar revenue or $2 million revenue and below, there’s not as many investors that are interested at that level because it’s just not that leveraged. Because what they’re looking for is a better return on capital than elsewhere. So if you add that $2 million to 3 million revenue and above and you’re growing fast, they can put in more capital, get a better return. So yeah, if you’re in high growth and you’re doing a decent load in mid seven-figure revenue range and your net margin is good, then yes, you can absolutely sell a portion of the business, have them as a capital partner to grow the business and then sell it later for a much higher multiple. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:22:02] Augustas: And another interesting question, I think…well, not interesting, but a normal question maybe for you. So someone is asking, “How do we see what businesses you have for sale? We would be interested in looking at European businesses which are for sale. We are primarily a US seller in Texas.”
[00:22:24] Coran: Oh, okay. Cool. So, shameless plug here: If you go to our website, thefbabroker.com, and click on “BUY A BUSINESS”, we have a registration form there, so we ask all of our buyers to register with us first, let us know what they’re looking for, we’ll give them instant access to deals that match what they’re looking for, but also keep them on the early notification list when those deals come up that match their criteria. So yeah, absolutely go there and let us know what you’re looking for and we’ll help you find it.
[00:22:53] Augustas: And you mentioned that you are tracking the market of buying and selling businesses — you know that there are more than 200 listings available. Does it mean that if you don’t have a good match in your own agency, will you tell that they might go to some other listing?
[00:23:12] Coran: Yeah. So each Monday, we put out a “Market Watch Monday” email, and at the bottom of that email, we’d link to absolutely every new listing that we find each week, so it’s a great email to get onto. To get into that, just go to fbabusinesspriceguide.com, sign up for the price guide and say “Yes” to Market Watch Monday emails, and then you’ll get those emails come through. There’s tons. Recently, we’ve seen 10 to 20 new listings a week. There’s been a lot of volume right now, so tons of good stuff to see in there. And that also works if it’s a smaller business than what we deal with. We don’t deal with a lot on low end, so that’s a great resource as well.
[00:23:51] Augustas: Paul is asking, “There is a difference between a product listing versus ecommerce business. Can you explain this further in terms of the multiple?”
[00:24:04] Coran: Uh-huh. Okay, so I guess he’s saying if it’s more just an Amazon business versus an ecommerce business where they have multiple channels. Yes, that’s diversification. So essentially, they’re both an ecommerce business, but as far as a multiple to push the multiple higher, you really want more income streams than just, say, Amazon US. And it does count if it’s Amazon US and, say, Amazon Europe, for instance. Maybe you’re doing 30 to 50 percent in Europe and 50 percent in the US, that’s diversification, even though it’s both Amazon. That’s somewhat diversified. However, if you had, like the other question, if you had eBay, your website and Amazon, about 30 percent each, that pushes the multiple higher, everything else being equal. I hope that answers the question.
[00:24:53] Augustas: I hope so, too. Steve is asking, “Due to Amazon’s rapid growth of Amazon Basics products and their many house brands reducing…” Okay, maybe I will just read what that person wrote: “Is Amazon’s very rapid growth of Amazon Basics and their many house brands reducing valuation multiples due to greater risk for acquirer over the next few years?”
[00:25:26] Coran: That’s an interesting question. It definitely is something that buyers are looking out for. They’re looking for, “Is this a category that Amazon either have a Private Label brands in, or is it something they’re likely to move into?” What we’re actually seeing on the flip side of that is a lot of sellers are in categories competing with Amazon Private Label brands and they’re actually outselling or outranking the Amazon products. So it depends on the category, whether it’s a high value target for Amazon or not, but it is a consideration. It’s more of a consideration if you already have seen Amazon competition have a negative impact on your business. That’s where it’s really a concern right now. Otherwise, it’s unknown. No one knows where Amazon’s going next, unless you work there, right, or in one of their Private Label brands. But yeah, they’ve got about 60 brands or something. That’s a lot of different brands.
[00:26:21] Augustas: Someone wants to know, “What is the commission you take on a deal?” And maybe, if you will reveal that commission, maybe you can explain what is involved in the whole process and what part do you take and what do you do for the deal to happen.
[00:26:37] Coran: Okay, cool. Our commission is a Sliding Scale, so it depends on how big the business is as to what the commission is. So it really depends. As far as the actual sale process, I can definitely explain that. That’s similar at most price points. So yeah, let’s start at the beginning. So we prepare your business for sale. We do our vetting checks before we go to market. We want to make sure that the account health is good, the margins are great, we help you verify your numbers and things like this before going to market, then we’ll create a marketing package to go to market with. And on the front end, if a buyer hasn’t seen any of our listings before, we’ve never done business with them, they’ll need to sign an NDA (nondisclosure agreement) and have a call with our team to verify that they’re a real buyer — show us proof of funds before going any further. And so we make sure they’re real buyer and they have cash before they see any details about the business. And then for those buyers, and those buyers only, they’ll get the initial information on the business, which includes some financial data and a Q&A with the seller.
[00:27:39] Coran: Now, the way we do this right now is we find that that removes the tire kickers, right? So the buyers that are just looking won’t necessarily jump through all of those hoops. And then once they see the Q&A and the additional information on the business when they say, “Okay, I want to book a call with the seller”, they are very motivated to move forward and often will have less buyer-seller calls. So as a seller, you’re not on the phone with 100 different people that aren’t really interested in your business. They know what your business is and they’re interested in moving forward. Before that, when we go to market, we actually have a number of VIP buyer lists — depending on the price point — that we’ve either done deals with before; they’ve already proven they are a real buyer, they’ve bought other businesses. We have these buyer groups. So when we go out to market, we go to them first, and often, we’ll actually get offers or buyer-seller calls booked before we actually go wider to the general public.
[00:28:36] Coran: And then, obviously, outside of that, we go very much wider. We have a larger buyer lists and other marketing channels that bring in buyers. But yeah, we do all of that for you. The other thing that you need to take into consideration when you’re selling your business outside of broker fees, regardless of whom you use, you really want to talk to your local accountant — so the accountant in your home country, where your entity is — and figure out the ramifications of selling your business and what the full taxes will be in your situation. So definitely, budget to do that first. Second is you want independent legal advice. So definitely get someone who’s not involved in the deal going ahead or not compensated by the deal proceeding to help make sure that your interests are covered. We can give you general advice as a broker.
[00:29:26] Coran: We’re not lawyers, and we deal with a lot of different jurisdictions, too — our clients are international. So you want, again, a lawyer in your home jurisdiction to help you with the purchase agreement, and also escrow. So right now, majority of the deals we’re doing in the seven-figure plus range are all handled [through escrow]. Escrow is handled by the lawyer, usually the buyer-side lawyer, and there’s no additional fees for that. So make sure there’s an escrow service involved, preferably a third party that handles the money. You want to make sure that the money’s actually there before you transfer assets, especially if you’re doing an off-market deal. If you’re trying to sell something yourself, make sure that there’s a third party holding the cash.
[00:30:06] Augustas: And can you tell us the range of the commissions you take, or do you not disclose this?
[00:30:12] Coran: It really depends on the size of the business. It could be anywhere from 15 (percent), 10 and down. The larger it gets, the less it is. We use the Double Lehman (scale) range. So as the business gets larger, we use that Double Lehman scale as the guide, which is the M&A standard worldwide.
[00:30:34] Augustas: Great. And the same question to the process of selling the business. Someone is asking, “Do the seller need to sign a non-compete agreement after the deal? Can they sell again on Amazon directly after (on a different category for example)?
[00:30:53] Coran: Yes, absolutely. Yes, you will need to sign a non-compete [agreement] with the buyer. And right now, we’re seeing a trend that we can actually get this really specific. You know, it’s not banning you from selling on Amazon ever again, but the buyer just wants some comfort that you’re not going after this business specifically. So as long as you’re cool with that, then that’s fine. There’s a bit of a back and forth. We can always negotiate the non-compete, but for the most part, it’ll be at least three years in the specific product ranges that you’re selling is what you’ll be not allowed to compete against. You can definitely sell on Amazon. We have multiple clients with multiple businesses, so they’re selling one account, one business, and they’re selling that, but they might be selling supplements, and then something else is in home and kitchen or what have you. Also, as long as you disclose that, so if you have other businesses, you don’t have to say the exact products, but “This is a category I’m selling in.”
[00:31:55] Augustas: So you mentioned “category”, which is the keyword, and I see the next question. Ester says, “There is a lot of talk about Amazon categories. Is it a matter of the category itself that buyers want, or rather, that some categories are easier to diversify in and have higher net profit?”
[00:32:16] Coran: Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s a mix. We have been tracking, like I said, the public sales of FBA businesses for two years now. We actually put out an article on the 2017 sales, all of the sales that we tracked. There was 178 last year for over $329 million in total sold listings, that is. And what we found inthat research was the top categories were “home and kitchen” and “health and household.” So those two categories are really where the bulk of the deals have been done to date. Depending on the buyer, they may pay more for a specific category, and we actually use this in part of our evaluation as well. We’ll look at category and range and then everything else we mentioned before — how diversified the product is, what the brand synergy is like — to create a multiple and a list price for you.
[00:33:13] Augustas: Another question is, “Hong Kong-based company and US-based one, which one is worth more? Keeping in mind that there is no tax for Hong Kong-based ecommerce company.”
[00:33:25] Coran: Yup. So, again, this one depends…sorry guys, a lot of this just really depends. In this case, it depends on the size of the business and the buyer type. So if the buyer is wanting the Hong Kong entity — and I literally got an email this afternoon from a VC (venture capitalists) group that’s looking to roll up FBA brands that are based in China, right? So that may scare some people, and we vet people very heavily before we do business with them so they’re not just stealing your products. But that aside, in that case, they may be interested in the Hong Kong entity, and if it’s a general sale, chances are it’ll be an asset-based sale. So even seven- or eight-figure deals can be an asset sale. And in the eight-figure range, it’s more likely that they’re wanting to take over the shares and your entity. So they may want to take over the entity.
[00:34:18] Coran: So for 80 percent of the deals out there being done, I’d say it’s an asset sale — where the entity is doesn’t actually matter. So yeah, that’s sometimes confusing. My general advice is to, obviously, when you’re thinking about entities, get your local tax advisor in all jurisdictions to give you the advice and build for that first without worrying about the sale. When you go to sell, it is what it is, you know. If something changes or there’s something materially different with your business, we may have to plan for the exit. But yeah, I wouldn’t suggest moving the entity ahead of the sale unless there was a significant reason in your case to do that. And the one thing that I will add, with US-based entities, there is a slight advantage at some price points. In the half million to $5 million range, there’s an advantage, potentially, if you’ve been paying taxes for the past couple of years. Because then, a buyer can use an SBA-backed loan to purchase your business. So the “SBA”, the small business administration, will actually back loans for small business in the US. So the buyer needs to be in the US and the entity needs to be US-based and paying US taxes to be able to qualify for this.
[00:35:34] Augustas: There is a great question. “What should a seller do at the beginning for their business so that they can exit with a maximum selling price years later?”
[00:35:46] Coran: Yes. Does it say “a year later” or “years later?”
[00:35:49] Augustas: Years. Years.
[00:35:51] Coran: Perfect. Well, that’s number one: have a longer time horizon. Often, I’m asked “How do you build a business in six months and sell it?” You’re not going to get the maximum value for that. As a rule of thumb, what we’ve seen with hundreds of sellers now and a lot of PNLs that we’ve seen — Profit and Loss (PNL) statements, so the financials — what we’ve seen is there’s often an arch when you’re starting a business from scratch, specifically with products. The first year, you’re often just getting started, you’re figuring out what works. Second year, you’ve found maybe a niche that works, a client type that you’re targeting and you’re building out more products for that client. So then, you’re doubling down on what’s working, reinvesting heavily in the business. So that’s at least year two, maybe year three, and then you can start optimizing and planning for the sale.
[00:36:40] Coran: It’s interesting that the question was about optimizing for the maximum sale. So this is where you have that tight brand synergy; you have really great net margins: around that 30 percent mark; you have a growing trend. This is the time you go to sell. It’s very rare in the growth mode, hypergrowth mode and exploration mode, to have consistently high net margin and net profits to get a decent exit. And that three to four-year period also gives you time to build off Amazon channels. So even if it’s just you’re still driving traffic to Amazon, but there’s a presence on your website, you have some social media stuff going on, you can build that buzz around your brand. And as long as that’s actually increasing sales, you can track that some of this is increasing sales, that will actually help you at the end of the day and sell your business for a higher multiple than if it was in the beginning.
[00:37:36] Augustas: Another interesting question: “Can you sell a particular SKU, and not the whole account? What’s the process of that? How do you transfer SKU to someone else?”
[00:37:47] Coran: Sure. You could. It’s interesting that we had a maximum question and then this one next. This is how to sell your business for the least amount of money possible — what we’re just being asked here. It can be done, but for the most part, you’re not going to get a huge valuation at this range, especially if it’s one or two products. We’ll need to see your whole account. We’ve often seen this where one or two products get quite profitable and they want to flip those. The multiples for these are just on a downward trend, like, you would not believe. We don’t actually do this ourselves. Sorry, we can’t help you with that. There are other marketplaces that you can go to sell this. As far as how to transfer it, before I go into that, there is one difference for that.
[00:38:38] Coran: So I have seen some very large accounts where they have a sports and outdoor brand, let’s say, that’s doing mid seven figures, but they have multiple brands. In this case, yes, selling the brand, we could probably help you with that. But the actual mechanics of transferring the brand is you need the buyer to have a seller account, an existing account or a new account, and then get Amazon involved to transfer the brand, assign the brand owner to that new brand, transfer of your trademarks and things — “Your Brand 2.0” — to that new buyer, and then send across your inventory. So yeah, it’s a little bit…there’s a few more steps because you’ve got to move inventory, so it’s expensive. 9 out of 10 times, you can’t do that with Amazon. They don’t want the liability of switching labels in their warehouse, so you need to often remove the inventory, relabel it, put it back in. It’s very much low value, especially if it’s one or two SKUs, around $100,000 or $50,000 deal. That’s very low value, and we’re seeing the multiples dropping for that, and the buyer pool for that, actually, is declining as well.
[00:39:47] Augustas: Alright. Next, “Do any of the buyers want to retain any of the principal employees from the seller’s business for a transition period? For example, the buyer specialist position is often very important to growth.” Yes.
[00:40:04] Coran: Yes. Yeah, it depends on the price point. It depends on the growth trend in the business. So if you have a strategic acquirer that’s looking to roll up many brands, they have their own operational team in-house, for them, it doesn’t matter. If you have a private investor that’s never sold on Amazon before, maybe they’ll want to keep you involved a little bit to training and sort of have you around in case they have questions. So we often spend a lot of time with the owner with his business. We spend a lot of time with the owner beforehand before going to market to figure out how to best transition for a brand new seller. And then you’ve got guys that are in the middle. So right now, in that $1 million to $5 million range, there’s a lot of funds that have just raised capital and they’re looking for their first couple of acquisitions.
[00:40:48] Coran: So if you’re in that price point and you’re an operator — so you’re very good with the Amazon game, your business is fast growing — then often, you will get an offer that includes you staying on with the business. And if that is offered, my tips for that is to try and figure out who the buyers are and see if it’s worth actually staying on. Because if you sell but you’re doing all the work and there’s no real upside, you may not want to do that deal. If they’re rolling in more brands actively into the portfolio and you have a potential to take some upside in a future sale or just equity share in the larger project, that may work — and maybe worth it — if they’ve done it before. So if someone on that team has had success doing that before, that could be a good deal for you.
[00:41:35] Augustas: I’ve just gotten a question from myself. I’m just thinking, a lot of people are talking about selling businesses because now, it’s getting difficult on Amazon. What is your take on this? Do you think it’s worth it to sell a business at this moment of the year and time?
[00:41:56] Coran: It depends, man. I mean, I see so many different businesses. Often, the people I’m talking to — the sellers that reached out to us, that we’re having calls with — 9 out of 10 times, it’s not the right time to sell. And it’s usually because their business isn’t optimized for a sale. The last thing you want to do is go to market, sell your business because you have to, right? If you’re coming in desperate to sell, buyers will know it. Your offers will be bad or nonexistent. It’s a tough place to sell. A lot of people are selling for fear of loss, too, right? So competition coming in, it’s getting harder to rank your products on Amazon. It’s business, right? It used to be easy, now it’s getting harder. This is the game of business. It’s not easy. So I think having a longer term view is the plan going forward.
[00:42:49] Coran: You know, right now, we’re seeing a lot of sellers that have really generic products that make good money, but they’re saying, “Well, how do I sell?” Well, depending on the business and depending on the margins and things, it might actually make sense to take some of that cash and go build a better brand, even in that niche, right? So maybe you’re in something super competitive. Can you take some of that capital and go build something unique, build something different, give yourself some defensibility? So use the cash flow you’re getting now to grow into something better that is sellable down the line. So that’s one option. Other people, sometimes, just have had enough of the inventory-based business — they’re not actually that great at it. And that could be a reason to sell. But just selling now just for the sake of selling is not a winning strategy. You really want to plan for that exit, and like I said, 9 out of 10 people I talked to aren’t ready to sell right now and SHOULDN’T sell right now if they want a decent exit or even top dollar.
[00:43:50] Augustas: Another interesting question: “How is sales tax impacting the value of the business if someone has paid the sales tax or if someone hasn’t paid it?”
[00:44:01] Coran: Right. Yeah. This is an interesting question. So let’s talk about VAT first because this is easier. Everyone should be paying VAT and you have to pay VAT in Europe and the UK. If you hit thresholds, you have to pay VAT, so that’s a given. In the US, sales tax is different. At the smaller price points, under half a million dollars, it rarely comes up with buyers. I think this will change, and especially there’s been some developments recently. I would say with regards to sales tax, definitely talk to your own tax professionals and see what your exposure is. We haven’t seen it yet impact too much on the valuation side, but to be honest, most of the larger US-based sellers we’re dealing with are paying sales tax. So we haven’t really seen that impact because most of them are paying sales tax. So I don’t have a definite frame of reference at different price points to tell you, unfortunately.
[00:45:04] Augustas: Should a seller only keep best-selling products or also keep not-so-good ones when it comes to selling their account? What is a good ratio between good, average, and bad products?” Is it, let’s say, 20 percent, 50 percent, 30 percent distribution?
[00:45:21] Coran: Yeah. That’s a great question actually. And here’s a couple metrics to figure out how this impacts you. So a few things to look at is your net margin. So like we said before, find out your trailing 12 months net profit, divide that by your trailing 12 months revenue. If your net margin is below 20 percent or below 25 percent, it may be an indication that some of your products aren’t profitable. So that’s something to look at. Usually, the easiest way to boost that margin is to cut the unprofitable SKUs. So you need to do some work pruning there before you go for sale. The second thing to look at is how much inventory you need to hold as a percentage of your trailing 12 months net profit. So if this is 20 or 30 percent of that trailing 12 months, that’s awesome.
[00:46:07] Coran: If it’s 100 percent or more, that means that things aren’t selling through — maybe you’re getting hit by longterm storage fees. And an investor looking at your business, whether you realize it or not, they’re looking at inventory as an asset, and assets need to get a return on capital. So if you need to hold a lot of inventory, Q4 (fourth quarter) is different. If you’re selling a lot at Q4, in Christmas, holiday season, that’s a different story. But on average, if you’re about that 30 to 50 percent, that’s usually a good sign that you’re at a good level of inventory and there may not be an issue. If it’s too much above that, 100 percent or more, that really means that something could be wrong in the business, and maybe it’s not the right time to sell. Maybe you want to trim down the product categories, the product diversification — so just the profitable SKUs.
[00:46:56] Coran: Also, another thing on that margin and products is, if you actually get a bookkeeper to help you monitor your numbers — which everyone should be doing 100 percent — we have a great one, if you need a recommendation, that doesn’t work for us. They’re separate. But they could actually tell you which countries are even profitable. A lot of people just look at the top line, they don’t look at country level. So maybe there’s a whole range of SKUs you’re selling in, say, the UK that you shouldn’t be selling at all; they just don’t make the money. So that’s something else to look at as well.
[00:47:28] Augustas: And someone wants to know, “How do you personally differentiate yourself as a broker in the market, let’s say, compared to ‘Empire Flippers’ and other brokers?”
[00:47:40] Coran: Sure. So we’re an actual broker. We work with you personally from beginning to end to make sure you get the best deal done for you. We’re not a marketplace, other places and marketplaces. There are other brokers as well. So it depends on the size of the business, which is the best option for you. I’ve bought and sold businesses myself before becoming a broker, right? So I have experience on both sides of the coin. And because of our marketing, I can tell you that — no one else can really tell you — we have almost $800 million, US, in capital from our registered buyers, ready to buy FBA businesses, because this is all we do. We don’t sell SAS businesses, we don’t sell websites. We just sell FBA ecommerce businesses. So that’s a differentiating factor.
[00:48:32] Augustas: Coming back to your previous answer for the person who was asking the question, he said, “Great insights, thank you! Please tell us the bookkeeper’s info.” I think the best way is to just write you an email.
[00:48:46] Coran: Sure! Yeah. If they email us at email@example.com, we’ll get them all those details. Yeah.
[00:48:53] Augustas: Yes. And next question is, “I’ve heard people say that they want to put a lot of resources in (time, money, etc.) and sell their business in 18 to 24 months. Is it even feasible to imagine starting a brand and selling it in under two years?”
[00:49:15] Coran: It’s possible, but it goes back to that earlier question of maximum value. Personally, what I’ve seen and what my belief is this: if you’re doing that, if you start from scratch with the goal of selling, it’s opposing forces. So optimizing for a sale means you’re optimizing that margin. You’re making the profit as high as possible. If you’re growing the business to be as big as it can, you’re not worried about your net profit. It’s very hard to do that in two years. We have seen this become possible. Where it really works is if you find a niche and you build out products around that niche. In a couple of years, if you have five products that have very good margin, they’re growing and it’s attracting the same target market, we’ve seen that work. But in my opinion, if it was me building it out, I would give it more time to breathe. Because at that 18 months, one and a half to two-year mark, you’re only really seeing what’s really working for your business, and that’s the time to double down on the business. A lot of people get caught up in the make-money-online, quit-my-job kind of thing. If you’re wanting maximum value for your exit, keep the job, have a separate set of income coming from somewhere else and let this grow. These businesses, really, the inventory-based, you need to put money in to make it grow. So that’s my two cents on the two-year mark.
[00:50:49] Augustas: And someone says that “My products are very seasonal. Is that a big problem?”
[00:50:56] Coran: No. Not if the seasonality is growing year over year. It’s a problem if this year, your summer was half of what last year’s summer was, then you’ve got a problem. And oftentimes, it makes sense to expand the product line. We’ve had sellers that have had, say, hit with a winter product and then they find a summer product or vice versa. If you can diversify seasons, but even better if you can attract the same type of customer, sports and outdoor is a great one to do this, where you have winter sports and summer sports. Maybe you can grab the same customer demographic, then that’s a good way to diversify. But if you adjust and you were strong in summer, as long as year over year, you’re seeing growth, and it’s not a fad — so you’re not selling fad products — if it’s got longevity, chances are you can still sell that. Depending on how long until the next peak season, buyers may or may not pay more for that, or less for that, depending on the time of year you actually go to sell the business.
[00:52:00] Augustas: Another question: “Do you recommend anyone to help prepare a business to be sold?”
[00:52:05] Coran: Yes, we can definitely help you with that. Other than that, you can talk to…you know, the number one thing is numbers, so talking to a good accountant, a good bookkeeper, building a team prior to selling is really where it’s at, and we can help you reach out to some professionals ahead of time to really plan for that exit. So knowing your numbers is key. Oftentimes, I’m talking to people, everything sounds like it’s a good fit to go to market, we get their financials in, they’re making less money than they thought or things are trending in a different way, and then we have to wait or reassess. So you really want to look at, if possible, selling a business 6 to 24 months ahead of time to really optimize your business for that ideal sale. And yeah, reach out to us, there’s other people that can help with that as well. But yeah, we can definitely help with that.
[00:53:00] Augustas: People are already saying that “You have explained things wonderfully. Thanks so much. And thanks for holding this interview.” We have a few more questions. One person is saying that “I have previously contacted brokers to sell my business and I was told it’s a problem that I have a UK company selling in US. They said preference is for US-based companies.”
[00:53:23] Coran: Uh-huh. Yeah, it depends on the size of the business here, again. I wouldn’t say that’s a blanket statement, but if the business is larger — if it’s in the valuation range of $1 million to $5 million — there would be a slight preference for it to be US entity, but it only matters if they’re paying taxes, have been paying taxes for the last two, three years in the US. So it’s not worth switching the entity to go sell, and that should, most of the time, be an asset sale. The seven-figure deals we’re doing right now are all asset sales. So, yeah, even if it’s a smaller business, chances are it’ll be an asset sale. What I think you’re getting the feedback on is the availability of the buyers to get debt to buy the business. Because if they’re a US-based buyer, they’re wanting to leverage US-based debt, and the easiest way to do that is with the SBA. It’s a program to generate more money into the economy — basically grow small businesses — so they’re not going to fund a UK entity acquisition, for instance.
[00:54:32] Coran: But we also have a ton of European UK-based buyers, so that’s becoming less of a problem. But like I mentioned earlier, European-based businesses are just, right now, it’s a little harder to sell. However, if you have the UK entity — so UK limited — and you’re selling in the US exclusively, that’s actually preferable than if you were a UK limited and you had, say, most of your income in Europe for instance, as far as sell-through on a business like that.
[00:55:02] Augustas: Next question is: “When selling a business, does the seller need to give/provide instructions, tips, strategies that work for the business to a buyer? Do business sellers need to consult the new business owner after the deal?”
[00:55:17] Coran: Only if you want to sell the business. So, yes, absolutely. One hundred percent. You want to set the buyer up for success. Yes.
[00:55:26] Augustas: Haha, okay. Alright. I think I don’t see any more questions, and we are here for almost an hour. Can you tell us the biggest mistakes you see people do when they’re trying to sell their business?
[00:55:41] Coran: Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve touched on a couple of these right now. The biggest one we’re talking about at the moment and what we’re seeing is not having brand synergy when it comes to selling the business. And if you have a wide range of products targeting all different people, that’s really tough right now to find a buyer. If you have one hero product and you don’t have any accessory products that are also selling to that demographic, it could be a bad time to sell, especially if the business is quite large. I have a personal friend of mine that has about a million dollar net per annum in one product. He has other products, but they’re doing about five percent of the work. That business is really tough to get a good multiple on, and also, the product isn’t proprietary or patented in any way.
[00:56:26] Coran: It’s somewhat private label, a little bit unique, but it’s not leveraged to that extent. That’s one of the things. Not optimizing ahead of time for net profit. So the biggest mistake is going to market with a really low net margin, a lot of inventory, maybe you’ve got dead SKUs, you really want to tidy that up before you go for sale. And then once you’re actually listed for sale, the biggest mistake I see sellers make is not running the business while they’re listed for sale. Just because you list your business for sale does not mean it sold. Just because we’ve got a buyer call doesn’t mean it’s sold. You could have a great offer, but it still is not sold. There’s time that needs to be taken. There’s due diligence, there’s checks, there’s back and forth. It can take a month to three months to get a deal closed.
[00:57:18] Coran: So if you’re not keeping your eye on the bowl, running your business as best you can during the sale process, you could actually lose the deal. Unfortunately, we’ve seen this a number of times in the last year, and we can only do so much as the broker, right? We can bring people together, but we need your help to actually continue to sell the business and get that actual payday. The deal’s only done once the money’s come out of escrow, it’s in your account, then we have a deal done. So please, whoever you’re using, work with the broker to keep managing the business ahead of time. And that also sets you up with momentum to hand over to the buyer as well, because you can say, “Here’s what we’re doing, here’s what our team is doing. Take over the reins.” I’d say definitely keep on top of your business.
[00:58:04] Augustas: Alright. I see the last question popped up: “Have you sold any German FBA businesses?” I guess yes.
[00:58:11] Coran: Yes, yes. We have. We have one transferring right now. But yes, we sold German-based, we sold European-based, we sold US-based, of course, and we’ve also got a deal right now that has an Amazon Australia portion to that business. It’s a small portion, but part of the business. Haven’t transferred an Australian account yet, but what it looks like on the front end is it looks very similar to the UK. So again, get approval, get it transferred. But yes, German businesses, there is demand. There’s a lot of buyers over here as well that are looking for German-based businesses.
[00:58:47] Augustas: Perfect! So can you tell us once again what is your contact data? How can people contact you and how can you help them?
[00:58:55] Coran: Sure. So the best way to keep in touch with us is go to fbabusinesspriceguide.com, and opt in for a monthly report. You’ll also get a Monday Market Watch email, so in each of those Monday emails, we’ll tell you how many deals have sold, what they sold for, how many new listings have come to market, and also at that full list of all the new listings, even if they’re not ours. We link off to everything, right? So you can get a sense of what the market is doing yourself, and also, get our commentary on what’s happening. If you’re wanting an evaluation of your business, go to thefbabroker.com and click on “Get Evaluation”, and you can go and fill out a form to figure out what your business is worth compared to other businesses on the market that have sold. And also, we’ll give you some tips on how to grow the business, make it more valuable when you go to sell. And if you have any questions that you’d like us and our team to help out with directly, just email us at firstname.lastname@example.org, and the team and I will help you out.
[00:59:58] Augustas: Perfect! And when you write to Coran and his team, you can mention that you heard about him through this webinar so that he will know that it was useful for other people.
[01:00:08] Coran: Yes! Please do. That would be great.
[01:00:10] Augustas: Perfect! So thank you very much, Coran, and good luck in your business. Bye Bye.
[01:00:15] Coran: Thanks, Augustas. Cheers, mate.